John: i dont hide it all though in the car

Suzy: uhoh..::DO YOU use Irc john? : Got disconnected and may have to use my backup computer since the cable has been a bit unreliable.

John: no, but I have ICQ on here somewhere...also AOL and Yahoo chat...

John: whys that? :

John, you don't hide it in your car? Has that resulted in some interesting stuff?

John: um...a guess a few interesting looks and head turning, but I dont know them, they dont know me, so who cares?

John: real close call when I pulled up along side a girl I work with though! John: de-sucked real quick! : I've always thought that if some guy saw it, he may act threatening, guess not, eh?

: Anyone you know ever catch you then?

John: no, pretty cautious under most circumstances...

Suzy: people say they see me out and about and i always ask if I was doing something embarassing : So you must drive aware of your surroundings that way, isn't it a bit nerve wracking?

: Suz, do they wonder why you ask?

Suzy: i just look for long, open stretches...and at night it doesn't matter...

: I remember that once I saw a black guy with a mustache tsing at a red light. He looked to see if I was looking, but I timed it well.

Suzy: I usually ask if i was picking my nose or something

Suzy: the shirt covers the real stuff...i can always say i was blowing my nose or somethin

: I also saw 2 older women tsing in their cars. Oh, pickin' yer nose.

John: how old is older? : Funny, finger sucking seems to be a better thing.

: Older, about 45 or so. Suzy: bettER? how? Last time, the people didn't start showing up until about 1/2 hour after start time.

John: suzy, has your finger sucking affected your teeth at all? know a woman who sucks her fingers n she has really bucked teeth...

Suzy: ohhh...than nose picking How? I just think that nose picking is kind of, well, disgusting, especially compared to finger sucking, but I'm biased. :)

: John, you know her personally?

Suzy: the top 2 turn in a bit but not really bucked

John: passing aquaintance....

: When you say bucked, do you mean that they stick out when her mouth is closed?

Suzy: crooked for sure

: And, how did you know she tses?

John: webmaster: oh a beaver

: Has she talked to you about it?

John: havent struck up a conversation about it yet, I only see her once in a while...watched her suck her finger at a dance one time

Suzy: i know none personally who sucks the digit

John: you dont know yourself personally? :)

: I know people who work digitally, but that's another story! :)

: John, Suzy has a slow connection, so be patient.

: John, you sound like you are interested in bucked teeth, am I right?

Suzy: hehehe...well...i am the only one i know

John: um, not really, I think they can look cute depending on the wearer, just like anything else

: If you notice the teeth in our dental section, most times the occlusion is more of the "open bite" variety.

John: yes, but I assume most of those are cases of THUMBsucking, not fingersucking, right?

: Suz, I was perusing the site, with the idea of correcting all the spelling errors and came across another woman with major similarities to you, have you noticed it?

: True, thumb, not finger. I do have two with finger occulsion results, and they are usually more pinpoint in their affect.

georgia: nope not anymore

: How old when you quit?

: The site for adult thumbsuckers (ATS) has the average age at 29, going up to 80.

georgia: ah, about 16

John: and how old are you now, georgia?

georgia: some people say that is two early

: You quit at age 16? We all believe that we are thumb suckers and proud, that kind of thing.

: What were the circumstances that caused you to quit?

: Suzy probably lost her connection.

John: jeez...scared em all off!

: No, I just think that, based on what she said to me : before : that her computer at home is too old for this : And : Her work computer is too out of the way. : I expect more people here around 8:30, we'll see.

John: not the kind of thing Id probably use the work puter for anyway!

John: I always wonder if a person having bucked teeth is a TSer, I mean, can you get them any other way?

: Hard to find that on Long Island.

: Most BT is genetic. : large upper jaw, small lower, etc. I can tell if it's due to tsing though. : Usually, the teeth are squewed to one side in a tser.

John: true, true...I suppose we develop an eye for spotting other TSers

: I know I have. : I've seen probably 15 or so adult tsers over the years.

John: wow, that's a lot when you think of it.

John: I work with a girl who does it openly,

John: another I suspect...

: That's one of the reasons I did this site, I just knew there had to be many, I mean, like, the odds and all. You're kidding, right?

John: no, she gets a lot of shit about it, too... (not from me, obviously)

: You WORK with her? Have you shared info, have you told her of the site and, finally, has she said why she's willing to put up with the shit? Does she deal with the public and, if so, has the boss been critical?

John: call me a wus, but no! havent wanted to bring up my own habit at work... we're both in the Navy, so you can imagine that this wouldnt go over well!

John: she's a...unique person...doesnt really care what people think of her

John: welcome back, suzy!

: Not yet, wait a little, her computer is slow.

John: patience, grasshopper

: John, if you know of grasshopper, you have to be in your 40's right?

John: no, 23...I guess im just old for my age...:)

John: if im still in the Navy when im in my 40s, please shoot me....

Suzy: what an ordeal.... : :)

Suzy: we gotta do IRC Or icq....something about this bravenet :

John: ..was kinda hoping Anji would be here tonite...been chatting back n forth lately

: Anji should be here, but the Simpsons are on and she's probably either forgot or can't get through.

John: oh yeah...forgot about the simpsons...first things first!

: John, does this Navy woman ts only when alone? I mean : When working also?

John: as for the girl at work, yeah, I ve seen her do it on watch...

: So, what do people say to her, and how does she handle it? : Suzy, tell me what you want most from this chat, be honest now.

John: well, people havent mentioned it recently, kinda forgot about it....

: John, how HAS she handled it when people did comment?

John: mostly they give her shit about being overweight and dating a loser... she basically told them to mind their damn business!

: OH, that figures I guess. I find it interesting that the great majority of adult tsers are overweight.

John: really? oral fixations perhaps extend to food then...

John: gosh, Im so Freudian....

: Yea, I suppose, though not always.

Suzy: overweight really? that seems odd....

: Wouldn't it be nice to have a giant tsing party one day?

: Hope more people go than show up in the chat area! :)

: Wonder, though, what it would be like.

John: weirder things have happened!

: I wonder where the most convenient area would be to have it, if it could be had.

[Sun Jan 16 20:48:19 EST 2000] meg has no profile.

: Meg! How are ya!!!

John: hi meg!

meg: fine, hi all

: Hope the kids are going to bed themselves tonight!

meg: they aren't ready for bed yet

: Meg, we were talking about shame last time, remember?

: Oh, ok

meg: yea

: You seem to be better these days, with the tsing, yes?

meg: whatbout it

: In terms of accepting yourself, finally.

meg: i don't know if i am any better i just don't think about it

: Oh, the old avoidance of pain thing, eh?

meg: i try really hard not to think it

meg: yea not really exactly

meg: i just tell myself that it is stupid to think about it

: There's nothing wrong with that, as long as the underlying issues aren't tearing you apart.

John: tried that before...hard to not think about it with a thumb in my mouth...

: I suppose, just accept who you are, and in a good light I'd hope,

Suzy: goofy as hell.....i'd be reluctant

meg: because I may not ever feel good about it, it is just part of myself i am not thrilled about but i am not going to change it

: One vote for, I'd take it then, hell, why not.

: John, Meg is well written. :

Suz, well spoken

Suzy: bizarre orgy or sort

John: and a fast typer!

John: must be using both hands :)

: Suzy, you talking about the tsing get together?

meg: do you feel a lot of shame about it

john : Meg, we mentioned a tsing get together.

meg: what is that

: A party of sorts, but highly unlikely, just talk.

meg: nope...done a lot more shameful things in my life than this!

: ditto

John: kinda puts it in perspective...

meg: a party in real life as opposed to online

: yes, real life.

meg: i suppose but i don't know why i still feel so bad about it. where? we live far away from each other

: Meg, I'd guess that if tsing was socially ok, with the way you feel, you'd still be shamed about it, right?

meg: it isn't socially ok that is the point

Suzy: hiya meg! i'm the slow one tonight...

: Midpoint, convenient.

meg: i just sometimes wish to be "normal"

: Yea, Suz's puter is old.

meg: hi suzy

: Meg, you are more than normal in many many ways. I have a lot of respect for you and what you've accomplished with your life.

John: normal is a highly subjective word!

meg: i know about the subjectivity

: Tsing is a part of you that's somewhat unique, and nice too.

meg: my therapist says all people have something they aren't thrilled about others knowing

: Yea, so then you're "normal" right?

meg: i guess it just seems to me that the people i know don't have anything like this

: Meg, as you've seen, there' are TONS of adults who suck their thumb.

meg: about what

Suzy: i think you can think about it to much...might as well just enjoy it

: It seems that everyone I know knows someone who is an ATS, really, John is in the Navy and there's a woman who does it openly.

: Meg, you have just given up the worry, at times, and just enjoyed it, right?

: John, Meg is a very capable and talented, intelligent woman, but has high internalized shameful feelings born from parental propaganda.

meg: something like

John: gosh, all those big words...know what you mean though...

meg: actually i am reasonably smart and starting to be capable

: I think she needs to suck her thumb and have someone love her and hug her and (rub her back and hair)

meg: thanks to a very good therapist

meg: do your parents know john

meg: suzy i think what you say makes a lot of sense

John: yeah, though it hasnt been brought up in a long time

meg: a good bit of the time

John: probably think ive stopped by now

meg: when it the last time they talked about it john

: My parents just found out about the site. They think it's silly, but understand.

meg: my parents would totally freak out

John: last time was when i was in college, and wondered how the roommate handled it. that was about 5 years ago

meg: how did he handle it

Suzy:'re doing nothing wrong by tsing

: So, you'd survive anyway, that's their problem, you decide to own it or not.

meg: i know that intellectually but emotionally i can't get a handle on it

Suzy: when i was a kid i always wanted to be normal

meg: me too!!

Pamela: im here again.. sorry i ve some problems with my conection : I was diconnected, so I'm now #2, screwed up here.

Pamela: hi meg

Pamela: hi suzy

Pamela: nice to see you girls

meg: hi pamela

: Meg, Suzy has an interesting story. Her parents were TOTALLY accepting and loving.

meg: really? they never gave you a hassle

Pamela: Hi meg nice to meet you.. Im pamela from Mexico.. but actually im in Spain now studyng an MBA

: Yes, she can't answer quickly because of a slow computer.

Pamela: see Webmaster.. conection problems jejee

: But, her childhood was a very happy one.

meg: my parents harrassed me and told me I was abnormal and something serious was wrong with me.

Pamela: Hi John

meg: mine was definitely not

: I'm on the phone, hold on.

meg: ok

Suzy: come to find out the more i knew other people the more normal i was

meg: how so? you just identified with them and that made you feel like them thus normal

: I'll tell ya Meg. I just told a customer, a couple of days ago, and he said, and I quote, "That's the big deal? That's nothing!!"

: I told two friends in the last 4 months, and they just about yawned, really. I was dissappointed in some strange way. It's only a big deal in our minds, really.

meg: i am starting to think you are right, maybe i am the only one who thinks it odd

: There you go!

meg: or as you say it is in my head totally

: Of course, some others may, but fuck'm.

meg: sounds so simple and feels so odd

: (I think there's a lot of private chat going on here)

meg: i still have a hard time believing my therapist still thinks highly of me

: Meg, you've just been programed, that's all.

meg: since she knows

meg: i know that in my head

: You project onto others your own feelings about yourself.

meg: my head and feelings are disconected

John: private chatting...sorry to be antisocial!

meg: i can split off my feelings from my head

: You engage in a magical sort of thinking where what you think others think you believe they think.

: John, expected.

: I'll bet Suzy is trying to pick you up, right?

: Or Pam is asking you for photos.

meg: are you there

: Meg, I'm here.

meg: i think i am getting tired

meg: this is too much thinking actually

: Confusing because you are dealing with opposing values.

: Oh, well then focus.

meg: so you just never feel at all ashamed of it

John: actually, adults realize that there are lots of different kinds of people in the world, and they learn to deal with it

meg: i can hardly even imagine that

meg: that is pretty cool

pocquito: All your thought's are known too others. whether you like it or not..

meg: i don't really have a sense of value or self to retain maybe that is the problem

: to be filled with shame is to define oneself.

: Yes, I think it is actually.

meg: i am starting to feel some sense of self, not really of value though

John: meg, what has your therapist had to say about your TSing?

meg: just self is better than nothing

meg: john, she thinks it is no big deal

: Meg, how would you measure your sense of self?

meg: she says i have funneled all my anger and feelings about the abuse in my family into this issue

: I agree totally. : It's symbolic in a sense.

John: very probable...

: What do you feel shamed about, do not include tsing in your answer.

meg: i just feel like i am not so much wanting to be other people or just get the hell out of my self

meg: and i am more content to be alone

meg: only ts-ing

: To escape the pain?

meg: yea

: Define the pain you feel, in terms of ideas.

meg: and just to escape the void in some sense i feel in me

: You feel empty?

meg: like i am just a shell with no inside that pretends to be real

meg: therapy is actually helping and i didn't think it would

pocquito: I hope I don't piss you guy's off,, But take control of your life and don't let the past influence your future!

meg: only recently have i started to feel better

: easy to say pocquito

John: meg, i know how you feel...had to deal with a lot of similar issues in my substance abuse...

: why recently?

pocquito: I have been there!!

meg: the past and the future are inextricably woven

pocquito: True!

pocquito: Learned from it..

meg: the future is your past moving through time in some sense

: So, you bring the past into the present/future?

meg: what kind of substane abuse

John: meg, alcoholism

pocquito: Does it matter?

gnrd74: i was curious to see if there were any suggested "remedies" for thumbsucking John:

gnrd74: nadie que nos entiende